Where are all of Karr's victims?

You are making my case, J__R. You seem to be jumping to the conclusion that the restraining order against Karr is related to pedophilic behavior ... with NO PROOF! For all we know, the order is a result of Karr being a harsh disciplinarian ... or was inattentive to his children's needs. We just don't have that info yet.

This is EXACTLY the kind of thing that I'm referring to ... the tendency to make sweeping assumptions based upon ... nothing!

Let's have a look at the court order before we make that leap. Or at LEAST hear from the mother.


...YumYum

 

Everyone has so eloquently stated my own thoughts, I only want to add the additional comment about his "victims": supposedly, he has nannied and taught, and on occasion there have been some who thought he was too strict or inappropriate.

Yet, there have been no actual trail of victims in his wake, the Thai government was not about to arrest him for any crime (I know Asia is a hotbed for child sex trade, but still...), no family that has had him in employ has come forward to speak yea or nay.

I believe he was running from his own life/demons and has become very sick, very pliable. What I don't understand is why this person deserved his greatest fantasy come true: a first class, full barrage press trip to Boulder that assured his name forever entwined with JonBenet, even if it is only as a fool/footnote.

 

No Y ² I am simply asking why the man wasn't allowed around his own children but stating that the evidence is out there that Karr appears to be fixated on young children and I qualified that with the disclaimer, "if his resume is to be believed." As a Behavioral Scientist, the man clearly concerns me. *And yes, he does appear to fit the mold. I would not want him around my grandchildren (or any children) until he is evaluated by multiple (highly qualified) doctors who conclude that he poses no threat to them. Even then, I am not so sure I would allow the man around my family members. He raises the hairs on the back of my neck and God gave us those hairs for a reason!

*And yes, he does appear to fit the mold. Perhaps that is why he was chosen for Tracey's latest victim. Yes, I do believe he was (or allowed himself to be) a victim here. That doesn't preclude him from needing serious help in his own right.

It is quite possible the man simply has arrested development. Unfortunately, I don't see much chance of the experts taking the time to study him once he is locked up because (to our knowledge) he is not a John Wayne Gacy or a Henry Lee Lucas.

 

Karr could pass 1000 evaluations with flying colors ... but I'd never knowingly let him near my kids. NEVER.

My argument is NOT that he isn't a very, VERY scary dude. My argument is simply that he needs to be properly pidgeon-holed. I'm just not convinced yet that "pedophile" is the proper pidgeon-hole.

BTW ... I see your distinction regarding the restraining order. You did NOT say that Karr was restricted in seeing his kids due to pedophillic behavior ... but many make that assumption, and we simply have no basis to make that assumption.


...YumYum

 

As soon as the news on Karr was first presented, our wonderful TV news media began tossing out un-investigated, un-colaborated, and un-informed opinions about a person, thing, event, as is their usual way. The word "pedophile" was being used in the same breath with "Karr" with not shred of proof.

IMHO, all we really know right now is that Mr. Karr did not kill JBR and is one sick guy who needs psychiatric help immediately.

 

Post 2001

I think also one needs to examine just what made JMK "trip", so to speak. In those family videos, he appears normal (aside from the mullet). Maybe his divorce tipped him over the edge? I have read that his father was the one who told him he should write a book about the Ramsey murder....clearly, something triggered his obsession with JonBenet and Polly Klass....

 

I concur. My concern is that he will serve his time in Sonoma County for the misdemeanor charges and he will be back on our streets - no evaluation done and he is a keg of dynamite waiting to explode in my opinion.


It also seems to me at the very least, Karr should be facing some serious charges and criminal consequences for the enormous amount of money he cost the taxpayers for this fiasco but then to be fair the DA's office bungled this from the get go so who do you really hold accountable?

 

Here's a bizarre pseudo theory of mine. Karr doesn't "LOVE" children like a pedophile might. In fact, he HATES children. His behavior seems to more closely imitate hate than love. The controlling of his 13 year old wife ... his strict dealings with students and children in his care ... and perhaps the reason behind the restraining order (we shall see). His comment on one video where he quotes Buffalo Bill from "Silence of the Lambs" ... "...don't make me put you in the well again ..." supports this theme.

More importantly, he has said something to the effect that his mother was a SAINT ... despite the fact that she tried to set him on fire as an infant. Murdering infants is okay?

And ... I think that the death of his twins at birth is worthy of investigation.

The guy is CLEARLY phukked-up ... and very possibly dangerous where kids are concerned. But a pedophile? I'm not so sure. Sadist? Psychopath? Sociopath? All of the above? I don't know how these things are delineated ... but I fear that he may be far more dangerous than your garden variety pedophile.


...YumYum

 

False Charges

Karr never made an official confession to American law enforcement---hence, no charges can be brought against him. Colorado taxpayers will have to bear the brunt of this blunder.

 

Dimmie - The guy is CLEARLY phukked-up ... and very possibly dangerous where kids are concerned. But a pedophile? I'm not so sure. Sadist? Psychopath? Sociopath? All of the above? I don't know how these things are delineated ... but I fear that he may be far more dangerous than your garden variety pedophile.

Yeah... and I heard on some TV show (Nancy Grace??) that he will be back out on the streets in about a year. Surely his family will get him (and US) help??

 

I think his family will get Karr help also, they seemed very concerned. However if Karr desides to skip town and run....I'd not want him loose at all...I think he is dangerous to children.

 

“I read the above to mean that a person must meet ALL THREE of these criteria, at a minimum, to be classified as a pedophile.â€

Not so, Yum. Please go back and re-read. The American Psychiatric Association in its main diagnostic manual, the DSM-IV TR, defines a pedophile as somebody who “over a period of six months, [has] recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 or younger)â€. It further states that the person has either acted on these urges or as a result of the urges has experienced marked distress or interpersonal difficulty. In other words, the pedophile may have acted upon the urges but did not necessarily do so at the time of diagnosis. Also keep in mind that diagnosis of any mental disorder is largely reliant on self-reporting, that is, the pedophile provides his history to the clinician. Well known in psych circles is a generous allowance for distorted self-reporting either embellishing or minimizing thoughts, feelings and behaviors.

“Again ... I don't see anything in Karr's phone conversations, and statements caught on TV which have the ring of truth. He doesn't seem to be "recalling" sexually arousing fantasies. Instead, he seems to be making them up as he goes along ... in his discussions with ADULTS. "LOOK AT ME!!!"â€

Yum, the DSM and logic don’t demand recollection of pedophiliac fantasies in order to qualify Karr as a pedophile. Listening to Karr’s phone conversations with both Wendy Hutchens and Michael Tracy, he begins to describe his fantasies (which I’m sure he has over and over again) to the listener but progresses into those fantasies to the extent that he becomes obsessed with them and is actually living them out as he’s telling the listener about them. He becomes lost in them. Karr’s psych problems are not restricted to just pedophilia but include an obsessive attachment feature as well as an inherent need for attention. That is what you are picking up on to rule out pedophilia, as if multiple disorders cannot operate concurrently. They can and do. As his arousal level builds throughout the telling of his fantasy, so does his attention-fulfillment. This is not intentional behavior but inherent…the attention seeking is built in to the pedophilia and its arousal patterns. A trained shrink does not need to witness a pedophile’s masturbation or self-molestation to identify it either. Pedophilia does not operate on past fantasies and their recollection. Pedophilia operates on non-stop sexual fantasies that know no place or time but continue to feed arousal and gratification.

“I see nothing in the DSM-IV suggesting that that is the case. It sounds like political rhetoric to moi. Ceratinly, the risk may be GREAT that pedophiles will eventually act out their fantasies. After all, if (as you say) pedophillia is DEFINED as an uncontrollable urge, then it follows that pedophiles MUST (by definition) eventually act out. Yet in Karr's case, he seemingly HAS been able to "control" such urges (IF he has them). Clearly, if Karr IS a pedophile, then he has at least some CONTROL over his urges. No?â€

Yum, your inexperience is showing in this statement. Those who have worked with pedophiles will tell you what I have told you. Pedophilia, as with any sexual deviancy, is an urge. Clinical study indicates that the frontal lobe of the brain where all impulse control is regulated is often deficient for a variety of reasons, thus rendering a pedophile unable to control those impulses and urges. This is a standard feature of any aberrant behavior which is why these people always end up acting out. It is called impulse control disorder. Here is another commentary from the DSM that might shed greater light on this facet:

What is an Impulse Control Disorder?

Impulse Control Disorders are a specific group of impulsive behaviors that have been accepted as psychiatric disorders under the DSM-IV- TR . Although they have been grouped together in this diagnostic category, there are striking differences as well as similarities between these disorders.

An Impulse Control Disorder can be loosely defined as the failure to resist an impulsive act or behavior that may be harmful to self or others. For purposes of this definition, an impulsive behavior or act is considered to be one that is not premeditated or not considered in advance and one over which the individual has little or no control.

While anyone can be capable of impulsive behaviors and/or actions at any given point, this particular diagnosis is used when there is a mental health issue present. In many cases, the individual may have more than one formal psychiatric diagnosis.

The impulsive behaviors or actions refer to violent behavior, sexual behavior, gambling behavior, fire starting, stealing, and self-abusive behaviors.

http://www.forensicpsychiatry.ca/impulse/overview.htm

Clearly, Karr suffers from impulse control else he would not at least be trying to insert himself into high profile child murder cases, confessing to homicides he didn't commit, to say nothing of what impact his impulse control disorder has on his sexual fantasies and proclivities.

There are occasions where pedophiles also break consent laws by having illegal sexual encounters with children. In these cases, the pedophile crosses the line within the framework of a relationship with a child he may have been cultivating over a period of time (grooming). For the pedophile, the child is the desired sexual partner and he desires not only sexual satisfaction, but love. While the law considers the relationship to be illegal, the pedophile sees it as a natural progression, a genuine expression of the love that has arisen between himself and the child. Karr’s conversations with Hutchens and Tracy clearly indicate that little girls are not only Karr’s sexual obsession, but that he perceives it as “love†and not sexual gratification.

From a pedophile’s point of view, he is greatly conflicted. On the one hand, he finds himself sexually obsessed with children but lives in a (U.S.) society that says it’s wrong, perverted and illegal. Guilt and shame drive a pedophile, as with any sexual predator, to live a double life. Because they cannot control these urges, many eventually wander into the sub-culture of pedophilia that then tells them there’s nothing wrong with having sex with children, that it’s actually good for kids and they aren’t perverts. Karr spoke of living in a hell and it’s clear that is exactly what he is referring to. If you ever had any experience with these people, even objectively clinically interviewing them, you would discover that there is tremendous self-loathing underneath it all because of what they are and because they cannot control it or control society into believing they aren’t reprehensible and dangerous. But when they experience that sub-culture, as Karr has done, that then gives them the message that sex with kids is just an alternative lifestyle and not a dangerous, illegal mental illness, greater confidence develops with promotion of that message to the non-pedophilia world almost to the extent that there’s pride in it. I would direct you to do some research on the Man-Boy Love group currently promoting pedophilia publicly and in a variety of electronic formats.

Add to all those psychoemotional dynamics Karr’s misbelief that his natural gender is unacceptable to the extent that he was actively undergoing preparations for a surgical sex change and you have one very screwed up individual with multiple disorders operating concomitantly. If he was also undergoing hormone therapy, the impact of introducing a steady stream of high levels of estrogen into a middle-aged testosterone dominant body would be profound at not only the physical level (which was apparent in Karr’s breast development) but at the psychological and emotional levels too. And this at a time in normal human development (middle age onset) when men as women are already experiencing substantial hormonal changes, Karr is most definitely a ticking time bomb. In fact, Dimmie, it is a well known fact that any pedophiliac tendencies first emerging in adolescence assume profound proportions including first-time acting out when middle age commences. Men who claim they never had any pedophilia tendencies in younger years suddenly become pedophiles during middle age.

“You are making my case, J__R. You seem to be jumping to the conclusion that the restraining order against Karr is related to pedophilic behavior ... with NO PROOF! For all we know, the order is a result of Karr being a harsh disciplinarian ... or was inattentive to his children's needs. We just don't have that info yet.â€

Once again, Yum, your inexperience is showing in that comment. Unfortunately, there are also cases where pedophiles, out of desperation or anger, exhibit pathological behaviors and abuse children, not out of love but out of selfishness. The pressure of concealing their sexual identity may have become too great. In the case of exclusive pedophiles — those that are not attracted to adults at all but only to children — the sexual tension may become too great to bear. Other factors in their lives may have caused an immense amount of stress to build up. Whatever the case, their normally loving and benevolent feelings towards children have been short-circuited and they act out in an aggressive, coercive or violent manner. I have observed that the usual motivation for over-control and “harsh disciplinarian†behaviors is what is known as projection with a self-loathing overlay. This means that the pedophile sees himself in children and instantly translates his self-hate onto those children in the form of some kind of physical or emotional abuse.

Please note that, according to the DSM and professional opinion, there are usually multiple disorders or mental illnesses going on, and Karr is certainly no exception. I mean no disrespect, Yum, but those who have experienced pedophiles in clinical settings don’t need to perform full psych evals on one such as Karr to recognize where he’s coming from. Only your inexperience demands it.