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  1. #13

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    Yes, also In chapter 2 when Sandy goes to the slums, her first experience of a "foreign country" and observes a man giving a woman 2 head blows. And the gender confusion afterwards, the woman saying, "I'll be your man," was that Sandy's recollection?

  2. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberry
    Yes, also In chapter 2 when Sandy goes to the slums, her first experience of a "foreign country" and observes a man giving a woman 2 head blows. And the gender confusion afterwards, the woman saying, "I'll be your man," was that Sandy's recollection?
    That is first related by the narrator, then Sandy is said to have pondered it from time to time.

    Sandy thinks Brodie is an unconscious lesbian.

    It would then follow that the "Brodie side" of Patsy was the one that caused the vaginal abuse.

    Sandy wanted to put a stop to Brodie as she was beginning to form another set after Sandy left school. She did so and became a nun.

    Near the end of the book Jenny calls Brodie a sinner. Sandy says "Oh, she was quite an innocent in her way."

    And of course, Patsy titled her book Death of Innocence.

    I think the Sandy side of Patsy attempted to kill the Jean Brodie side of Patsy 12/25/'96.

  3. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox

    Sandy thinks Brodie is an unconscious lesbian.
    I have wondered how Patsy dealt with her fear of being gay. According to Linda Hoffman Pugh, Patsy didn't love intercourse. Since we know she didn't get counseling, she may have had an unresolved issue - maybe if she didn't like sex with the menfolk, there was another desire that needed to be met.

    I'm not educated in psychology, but it seems to me Patsy was sexually confused, which was only exacerbated by her surgery.

  4. #16
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    The confusion you speak of is of gender or sexual identity. The activeness or latency of the sex drive is another thing. I think Patsy had no gender identity problems. I think she was sexually inert, undeveloped or repressed, possibly due to trauma. More likely her lack of a sex drive is related to other split-off personality factors that remained unconscious due to a split in personality development in childhood.

    The discovery of penises through art and indescent exposure, the repugnance of intercourse and it's role in marriage and morality are discussed in TPOMJB.

  5. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox
    The confusion you speak of is of gender or sexual identity. The activeness or latency of the sex drive is another thing. I think Patsy had no gender identity problems. I think she was sexually inert, undeveloped or repressed, possibly due to trauma. More likely her lack of a sex drive is related to other split-off personality factors that remained unconscious due to a split in personality development in childhood.

    The discovery of penises through art and indescent exposure, the repugnance of intercourse and it's role in marriage and morallity are discussed in TPOMJB.
    So, you're saying she saw a grown-up penis in some kind of traumatic childhood event, which wasn't dealt with well by her redneck mother, and which caused this splitting off of her sexuality?

    (Not only am I not educated in psychology, I also cannot imagine sexual repression. Just get a good man and get over it!)

  6. #18
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    I think Patsy's development was interrupted in a general sense by her narcissistic mother when Patsy was very young. Much of Patsy's natural persona was left behind as she became a performer of Nedra's idea of who she should be. Patsy's sex drive was a casualty. Patsy became an overachiever in an effort to gain identity and affirmation. Her accumulation of behaviors was a compensation for a lack of development, i.e. she acted the part. She probably performed sex out of a sense of duty rather than a fulfillment of instinctual desires. She learned to present herself as a sexual being without ever really being one.

    The moral conflict in Patsy's psyche is repressented by the relationship between Sandy Stranger and Jean Brodie in the book. The cause of the conflict, Patsy's relationship with Nedra, is alluded to in the book as well.

  7. #19
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    Jenny and Sandy have a tea party.

    Sandy's mother looked round the door and said, "Enjoying yourselves, darlings?" Over her shoulder appeared the head of Jenny's mother, "My word," said Jenny's mother, looking at the tea-table, "they've been tucking it in!"

    Sandy felt offended and belittled by this; it was as if the main idea of the party had been the food.

    "What would you like to do now?" Sandy's mother said.

    Sandy gave her mother a look of secret ferocity which meant: you promised to leave us all on our own, and a promise is a promise, you know it's very bad to break a promise to a child, you might ruin all my life by breaking your promise, it's my birthday.

    "Sandy's mother backed away bearing Jenny's mother with her. "Let's leave them to themselves," she said. "Just enjoy yourselves, darlings."

    Sandy was sometimes embarrassed by her mother being English and calling her "darling," Not like the mothers of Edinburgh who said "dear." Sandy's mother had a flashy winter coat trimmed with fluffy fox fur like the Dutchess of York's while the other mothers wore tweed or, at the most, musquach that would do them all their days.

  8. #20
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    Cranberry,

    Thank you for all the work and time you have put into this book/play/movie, "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie." The movie made in 1969, was a favourite of mine, because of my Scottish background. I thought Maggie Smith was excellent as the character of Miss Brodie, and Lynsey Baxter as Sandy Stranger, and all the others. Contrary to the description of Sandy Stranger having small eyes, Lynsey Baxter's eyes are one of her most attractive features. Large and dark blue, and like Maggie Smith, she is an excellent actress.

    At times, I quite believe Paradox has tuned right into Patsy Ramsey's head, when he posted that she was besotted with the author Muriel Sparks.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  9. #21
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    Paradox,

    Not everyone will understand your signature, if they haven't seen the movie, or read the book, "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie." Cranberry has helped a great deal here. Too bad we can't have the whole movie on youtube. :-(
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  10. #22

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    Thank you Elle, you are too kind. You and the FFJ members are scholars on this case, so I read and learn from you. I would like to read the play and see the movie someday. I find the book fascinating.

  11. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox
    snip
    The discovery of penises through art and indescent exposure, the repugnance of intercourse and it's role in marriage and morality are discussed in TPOMJB.
    Also found this in my notes: Towards the end of Easter holidays when Jenny was accosted by the man exposing himself. Sandy fell in love with the unseen policewoman. Inventing new speech, image and name for her.

  12. #24
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    Sandy is the real star of the book. She is also an alter ego of Muriel Spark; the intuitive, cynical observer of people. She is an imaginative dreamer.

    I wonder what Patsy was trying to tell the world by performing a soliloquey from the play/book/movie?

    Thanks for the thread Cranberry.



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