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  1. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by love_mama
    Freebird, Autism is VERY real and so is Aspergers. A horrible thing for both child and parents, albeit there are really bad cases of it..........and some not so bad.

    Would you think that if Burke had this........he would be able to go to College .............? Just curious.

    xxxxxxxxxxoooooo
    mama

    Oh yeah, definetly, in fact I'm one of the people who thinks Burke could have Aspergers. His reactions were inappropriate imo and more inline with a person with Autism. But I wouldn't go out on a limb and say he has it, I just wouldn't be surprised.

  2. #38

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    Dear Elle:

    "remember reading somewhere (?), that the Ramseys had called a lawyer or a judge in the middle of the night, enquiring about the Colorado Law for children, which caused some speculation that this crime was Burke related"

    --This caused some speculation??? I would call that the mother of all understatements! "Oh, hi, judge, [lawyer or whatever]. This is John Ramsey. How's the wife and kids? Did you have a nice Christmas? It's two o'clock in the morning? Yeah, I guess it is. We were up late because of Christmas and all, and I thought I'd just give you a call. Well, while I have you, just out of idle curiosity, would you happen to know what's the minimum age to charge a kid with a crime in Colorado?"

    Oh, come on!

  3. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freebird
    "When I first read about this latest fad, Asperger's Syndrome, I laughed until the pens fell out of my pocket protector."


    I don't think I imagined the belittling.
    Freebird, I apologize for offending you. I didn't intend to offend anyone.

    From www.aspergers.com

    In Asperger's Disorder, affected individuals are characterized by social isolation and eccentric behavior in childhood. There are impairments in two-sided social interaction and non-verbal communication. Though grammatical, their speech is peculiar due to abnormalities of inflection and a repetitive pattern. Clumsiness is prominent both in their articulation and gross motor behavior. They usually have a circumscribed area of interest which usually leaves no space for more age appropriate, common interests. Some examples are cars, trains, French Literature, door knobs, hinges, cappucino, meteorology, astronomy or history.
    In my business, building design and construction, there are many, many people who meet these criteria. I probably do. Engineering schools and the related professions are full of people like this.

    I laughed when I first read about this syndrome, because I find it silly, from my point of view, to label these traits a "syndrome" or a "disorder," which can be seen a seen as stigmatizing, rather than a personality type. There is actually a small movement among Asperger's people to call their traits "neuroatypical behavior" rather than a syndrome.

    Again from my point of view, look at it this way - Is there such a thing as "Tennyson's Syndrome," characterized by hyperverbosity, writing in metered rhythms, over-romanticism, over-emotionalism, aptitude for dance, and inability to do simple arithmetic. No, that's not a syndrome, even though it's sort of the opposite of Asperger's.

    I just think we don't need to call people who think this way "disabled". That's all.

    Also, I was not referring to autism as bogus in the post that started this off. Not at all.

    Again, Freebird, I am sorry for offending you.

  4. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by love_mama
    Freebird, Autism is VERY real and so is Aspergers. A horrible thing for both child and parents, albeit there are really bad cases of it..........and some not so bad.

    Would you think that if Burke had this........he would be able to go to College .............? Just curious.

    xxxxxxxxxxoooooo
    mama
    Actually, people who are "high-functioning" autistic can do very well in academia. For example, Temple Grandin (brilliant, articulate, has designed humane structures for animal care and slaughter - has a book titled "Animals in Translation"). Especially since they can have amazing memories for facts and figures.

    With social relationships, they struggle, but as I always tell my sons "There are friends out there for everyone." If Burke has something more like Tourette's, that can be managed to some extent with medication. People who are more severely autistic live in their own world and would not be college material.

    Heymom
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  5. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom
    For example, Temple Grandin (brilliant, articulate, has designed humane structures for animal care and slaughter - has a book titled "Animals in Translation").
    Heymom
    I love this book.

    Over half of the animals slaughtered for food in America are processed using Dr. Grandin's humane methods. It should be 100%.

  6. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat
    Freebird, I apologize for offending you. I didn't intend to offend anyone.

    From www.aspergers.com



    In my business, building design and construction, there are many, many people who meet these criteria. I probably do. Engineering schools and the related professions are full of people like this.

    I laughed when I first read about this syndrome, because I find it silly, from my point of view, to label these traits a "syndrome" or a "disorder," which can be seen a seen as stigmatizing, rather than a personality type. There is actually a small movement among Asperger's people to call their traits "neuroatypical behavior" rather than a syndrome.

    Again from my point of view, look at it this way - Is there such a thing as "Tennyson's Syndrome," characterized by hyperverbosity, writing in metered rhythms, over-romanticism, over-emotionalism, aptitude for dance, and inability to do simple arithmetic. No, that's not a syndrome, even though it's sort of the opposite of Asperger's.

    I just think we don't need to call people who think this way "disabled". That's all.

    Also, I was not referring to autism as bogus in the post that started this off. Not at all.

    Again, Freebird, I am sorry for offending you.
    Wombat, my dear friend, you do NOT have Asperger's. You would not be on THIS BOARD if you had Asperger's. FFJ requires much more social interaction and spectrum of thought than those with Asperger's can manage.

    Asperger's Syndrome is not another word for "geek" or "nerd" or "engineer." Ask Jayelles. She has taught children with Asperger's. There is a definite difference. No one is saying that people with Asperger's are "disabled," but they do need special ways of helping them learn and function in society.

    Of course, there are varying degrees of Asperger's, and a person with only a slight condition might not need any help in decoding social cues or finding ways to approach new subjects. One of Jay's students was totally obsessed with Lord of the Rings ... to the point of being able to think of nothing else. Everything in his life related to Lord of the Rings. He simply could not concentrate on anything UNRELATED to Lord of the Rings. So, Jay altered her teaching materials just for him, and incorporated Lord of the Rings into some of his work. It helped the young man be able to relate to the subject in a way that he could not have done otherwise. And that's just one example. I'm sure Jay could explain it better than I.

    My husband is an engineer, and he told me the following joke:

    How can you tell if you're talking to a geologist? He looks at your shoes when you're talking to him.

    How can you tell if you're talking to an engineer? He looks at his OWN shoes when you're talking to him.

    But my husband, and all the other engineers I've known, do not have Asperger's. They may not be social gadflies, but they do have social skills. They may love math and using it to understand the world around them, but that's not an "obsession" to the point of exclusion. They also have other interests.

    Having an "engineer personality" does not mean you have Asperger's. Having Asperger's does not mean you're disabled. And the possiblity that Burke MIGHT have Asperger's was not a slam on him, but just some poster's attempt to understand his personality and behavior.

    By the way, I think I might have "Tennyson's Syndrome." Is it fatal?

  7. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel XVI
    Dear Wombat:

    I find your apparent defensiveness of Burke Ramsey in regard to suggestions that he could possibly have suffered or suffers from marginal autism or Asperger's to explain his seemingly odd behavior at the time of the tragedy and afterwards, to be bizarre in context.
    Thank you for your consideration, but I am not responding to someone who call my thoughts defensive and bizarre.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearlsim
    I didn't get the feeling that Wombat was belittling autism...but rather, making a comment as to judging and labeling Burke, based on so little evidence.
    This is exactly what I meant. I apologize for not being clear!

  8. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee
    Wombat, my dear friend, you do NOT have Asperger's. You would not be on THIS BOARD if you had Asperger's. FFJ requires much more social interaction and spectrum of thought than those with Asperger's can manage.

    Asperger's Syndrome is not another word for "geek" or "nerd" or "engineer." Ask Jayelles. She has taught children with Asperger's. There is a definite difference. No one is saying that people with Asperger's are "disabled," but they do need special ways of helping them learn and function in society.

    Of course, there are varying degrees of Asperger's, and a person with only a slight condition might not need any help in decoding social cues or finding ways to approach new subjects. One of Jay's students was totally obsessed with Lord of the Rings ... to the point of being able to think of nothing else. Everything in his life related to Lord of the Rings. He simply could not concentrate on anything UNRELATED to Lord of the Rings. So, Jay altered her teaching materials just for him, and incorporated Lord of the Rings into some of his work. It helped the young man be able to relate to the subject in a way that he could not have done otherwise. And that's just one example. I'm sure Jay could explain it better than I.

    My husband is an engineer, and he told me the following joke:

    How can you tell if you're talking to a geologist? He looks at your shoes when you're talking to him.

    How can you tell if you're talking to an engineer? He looks at his OWN shoes when you're talking to him.

    But my husband, and all the other engineers I've known, do not have Asperger's. They may not be social gadflies, but they do have social skills. They may love math and using it to understand the world around them, but that's not an "obsession" to the point of exclusion. They also have other interests.

    Having an "engineer personality" does not mean you have Asperger's. Having Asperger's does not mean you're disabled. And the possiblity that Burke MIGHT have Asperger's was not a slam on him, but just some poster's attempt to understand his personality and behavior.

    By the way, I think I might have "Tennyson's Syndrome." Is it fatal?
    Thank you for clarifying things so well, Cherokee! I don't know where along the line people started to think that Asperger's/Autism encompasses engineers and computer nerds! They are different things entirely. Maybe it's because the numbers of people diagnosed seem to be going up. The perception is that people are being falsely diagnosed. That may also be true, but people with autism, wherever they are on the spectrum, are not merely engineer-types.

    Heymom
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  9. #45

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    OK, I guess this is where I get to jump back in. I have a son with Asperger's Syndrome, he is now 11 years old. This is definitely not just a "personality type." As Jayelles and others have stated, it is marked by some specific characteristics, the most prominent being, IMO, the inability to read social cues accurately, or in some cases, at all.

    My son's autistic-type behaviors were identifiable at age 3, and were quite pronounced. He was definitely not a typical preschooler. We finally got the correct diagnosis at age 5. In the early years, I was hopeful that with lots of therapies he would eventually progress right out of the diagnosis and seem pretty neurotypical, but as he has gotten older, particularly now that he is entering puberty, I don't see that happening. The social difficulties have just gotten more pronounced, and he has a very difficult time managing his obsessions. I am very hopeful that he will be able to attend college, but I don't see him being able to go away to a major university at age 19 and be able to maintain a schedule and take care of himself. Maybe he can by the time he's 25 or so, but these kids are late bloomers and are socially several years behind their peers. I anticipate him taking a light schedule and living at home for at least the first few years of college. Transitions are difficult, and I just can't imagine that if Burke has AS, that he can make such a major transition so easily, especially since his mother just passed away.

    Also, in my experience, it is very difficult for AS people to lie. They can be lied to fairly easily, as they are naive and gullible. But if Burke was a witness or had first-hand knowledge of what happened that night, I have a hard time believing that he would be able to contain that information, especially right after it happened. AS people are real sticklers for precise language and have no tolerance for exaggeration or word substitution! And I would think that J & P would have been absolutely panicked that he might blurt it out to someone at any time, and they would never have allowed him to be out of their sight.

  10. #46

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    Dear Cherokee:

    "And the possiblity that Burke MIGHT have Asperger's was not a slam on him, but just some poster's attempt to understand his personality and behavior."

    --Exactly right. And also an attempt to defend BR against those who might attempt to attach a more sinister "interpretation" to the (then) child's behavior.

  11. #47

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    Dear Masker:

    "And I would think that J & P would have been absolutely panicked that he might blurt it out to someone at any time, and they would never have allowed him to be out of their sight."

    --And that, Masker, is one excellent and perceptive insight on your part.

  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel XVI
    Dear Cherokee:

    "And the possiblity that Burke MIGHT have Asperger's was not a slam on him, but just some poster's attempt to understand his personality and behavior."

    --Exactly right. And also an attempt to defend BR against those who might attempt to attach a more sinister "interpretation" to the (then) child's behavior.
    No, not an attempt to defend Burke Ramsey, at least not on my part. I don't know how things happened that night in the Ramsey home. I am not a BDI believer. I just have a problem believing that a child, any child, could be completely silent about something like this for 10 years, if he knew anything or if he did something sinister. Especially if he has some signs of Asperger's Syndrome. People with AS are usually frank to a fault, and will say things that you and I wouldn't not say, out of politeness or social rules they don't understand.

    I think there are various people here who believe that Burke was somehow involved. I am not one of them.

    Heymom
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!



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