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  1. #109
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    My guess is that Hunter had his hand in this from the get go? Wasn't he on vacation somewhere initially? Or am I wrong about this?.....
    He sure seemed nonchalant to me. And to talk to Jeff Shapiro the way he did...if this is the truth??? Is beyond me.
    Where is Hunter now? Is he dead?
    Jamie

    Life is a journey, always learning what you can, always loving the best you can and realizing you are never alone.

  2. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJame
    My guess is that Hunter had his hand in this from the get go? Wasn't he on vacation somewhere initially? Or am I wrong about this?.....
    He sure seemed nonchalant to me. And to talk to Jeff Shapiro the way he did...if this is the truth??? Is beyond me.
    Where is Hunter now? Is he dead?
    Hunter is not dead. He isn't in the pubic eye anymore; his assistant Mary Lacy is now the DA in Boulder. Hunter had his hand in this right from the first, I don't know how he lives with himself. I think the matter with Jeff Shapiro was the truth- I never saw where Hunter denied it; it was portrayed in both the book and move PMPT, and if it wasn't true, he would have challenged that portrayal. HUnter also never dened Shapiro's version of events that I am aware of.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  3. #111
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    Thanks DeeDee....I just wasn't sure where he was now. Surely he isn't in the pubic eye now....(I'm just being funny) I guess I knew in some way that Mary Lazy was....
    But the only way they were all "in" with each other is that is has been passed down. And I believe that. But why? Why was protection of the Ramsey family so important? I believe, if folks can not think about it, then it can go away. Do they pay later? Yes, I have to believe they do. But a Ramsey is guilty. This is obvious. What was the reason it was not made public? I am not so sure it was Burke. He was young. Does he have a clue? Maybe. I don't remember much at that age. But I do remember those that died that were close to me. Surely he remembers some. But surely, other family members do to. What about Fat Pam?
    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee
    Hunter is not dead. He isn't in the pubic eye anymore; his assistant Mary Lacy is now the DA in Boulder. Hunter had his hand in this right from the first, I don't know how he lives with himself. I think the matter with Jeff Shapiro was the truth- I never saw where Hunter denied it; it was portrayed in both the book and move PMPT, and if it wasn't true, he would have challenged that portrayal. HUnter also never dened Shapiro's version of events that I am aware of.
    Jamie

    Life is a journey, always learning what you can, always loving the best you can and realizing you are never alone.

  4. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJame
    Thanks DeeDee....I just wasn't sure where he was now. Surely he isn't in the pubic eye now....(I'm just being funny) I guess I knew in some way that Mary Lazy was....
    But the only way they were all "in" with each other is that is has been passed down. And I believe that. But why? Why was protection of the Ramsey family so important? I believe, if folks can not think about it, then it can go away. Do they pay later? Yes, I have to believe they do. But a Ramsey is guilty. This is obvious. What was the reason it was not made public? I am not so sure it was Burke. He was young. Does he have a clue? Maybe. I don't remember much at that age. But I do remember those that died that were close to me. Surely he remembers some. But surely, other family members do to. What about Fat Pam?
    It isn't so much a matter of protection of the Rs being so important- it was a case of the Rs high-powered defense attorneys squashing the case. This law firm had connections to the governor. I have read of phone calls logged from the asst. governor's office to the R home after the murder. These same defense attorneys were also in business and real estate relationships with Hunter- they also were members of the same country club. Hunter had a long history of never bringing a case to trial- he preferred to plea-bargain. He just wanted to coast until his retirement- the JBR case was the last thing he wanted to deal with. I believe the defense and the governor's office pressured the DAs office to squash the case against the Rs. There is simply no other explanation for Hunter's refusal to prosecute this case and for his refusal to issue supoenas for the most basic things (phone records).
    As for BR, he is 21 years old now- with his sister, mother and grandparents dead, JR is his only family. Whatever he may remember or THINK he remembers, it must be clouded by what he has been told about it by his parent(s). Most if us don't remember things from our childhood, but at age 9-10, you can bet we'd ALL remember details about when a sibling died, especially if she was murdered. He remembers, believe me. As for what he remembers- that is subject to what he has been told about that night, and how much he actually does remember. Keep in mind that he may not know everything about that night- he admitted he was not really asleep (as his parents have said he was) but that he heard "noises" around midnight and also admitted to hearing yelling and scurrying about in the early morning hours. I bet anything that NO Rs went to sleep that night AT ALL after returning from the White's.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  5. #113
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    thanks DeeDee....
    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee
    It isn't so much a matter of protection of the Rs being so
    important- it was a case of the Rs high-powered defense attorneys squashing the case. This law firm had connections to the governor. I have read of phone calls logged from the asst. governor's office to the R home after the murder. These same defense attorneys were also in business and real estate relationships with Hunter- they also were members of the same country club. Hunter had a long history of never bringing a case to trial- he preferred to plea-bargain. He just wanted to coast until his retirement- the JBR case was the last thing he wanted to deal with. I believe the defense and the governor's office pressured the DAs office to squash the case against the Rs. There is simply no other explanation for Hunter's refusal to prosecute this case and for his refusal to issue supoenas for the most basic things (phone records).
    As for BR, he is 21 years old now- with his sister, mother and grandparents dead, JR is his only family. Whatever he may remember or THINK he remembers, it must be clouded by what he has been told about it by his parent(s). Most if us don't remember things from our childhood, but at age 9-10, you can bet we'd ALL remember details about when a sibling died, especially if she was murdered. He remembers, believe me. As for what he remembers- that is subject to what he has been told about that night, and how much he actually does remember. Keep in mind that he may not know everything about that night- he admitted he was not really asleep (as his parents have said he was) but that he heard "noises" around midnight and also admitted to hearing yelling and scurrying about in the early morning hours. I bet anything that NO Rs went to sleep that night AT ALL after returning from the White's.
    Jamie

    Life is a journey, always learning what you can, always loving the best you can and realizing you are never alone.

  6. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase
    Rashomon, the evidence must reach the level of "probable cause" for an arrest warrant. That standard is not as high as "beyond a reasonable doubt", needed for a conviction, as you know.

    There certainly was enough evidence to reach the "probable cause" standard. But after Hunter finished sandbagging warrants and handing out evidentiary reports to the Ramseys' law team, he well knew he'd never make the case in a trial. That's exactly what he was after, IMO. It worked.

    But the purpose of arresting on probable cause is to get the suspects into an interrogation room and on the record. Since that didn't happen for four months, it should have been done at the very LEAST after the funeral when the Ramseys still refused to come in for questioning, since THEY CERTAINLY GOT THEMSELVES TO A TV STUDIO FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS OF QUESTIONS THE DAY AFTER THEY BURIED JONBENET!

    Of course the Ramseys would never have answered a question, and their lawyers would have made sure of that. But it should have been done and they should have been put on the record as refusing to answer questions. Lou Smit is on the record stating HE WOULD HAVE ARRESTED THEM IMMEDIATELY IF THEY'D REFUSED TO BE QUESTIONED AFTER THE BODY WAS FOUND. That's the most honest thing Smit has ever said about this case and the Ramseys, in fact. It should have been done. Hunter stopped it from being done. Ever.

    You see, you have to go through the tried and true procedures: there is always a chance the stress of going through the perp walk, fingerprinting, mug shot, etc., might lead to someone talking. Remember Patsy had a hard time keeping her mouth shut. If nothing shook out, the DA could always have dropped the charges. But we'll never know now.

    As you know, any person here in the same circumstances would have been handcuffed and led to the BPD pronto if we refused to cooperate with LE.
    Thanks KK for your informative post.
    I believe Patsy would have caved in had she been arrested immmediately, with everything she had done still fresh on her mind - she would not have stood up to the pressure.

    Maybe the Ramseys would have been arrested if officer French had opened the wine cellar door immediately after arriving at the Ramsey home in the those early morning hours, discovering the body at once. Imo their staging farce would have been exposed far more glaringly then without all those hours of waiting for the alleged kidnappers to call ...
    Last edited by rashomon; February 21, 2008, 9:35 am at Thu Feb 21 9:35:15 UTC 2008.

  7. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    Thanks KK for your informative post.
    I believe Patsy would have caved in had she been arrested immmediately, with everything she had done still fresh on her mind - she would not have stood up to the pressure.

    Maybe the Ramseys would have been arrested if officer French had opened the wine cellar door immediately after arriving at the Ramsey home in the those early morning hours, discovering the body at once. Imo their staging farce would have been exposed far more glarilngly then without all those hours of waiting for the alleged kidnappers to call ...
    I agree with both of those statements. Timing is everything. Of all the flaws in the handling of this case, the most fatal happened in the first hours- Officer French not looking UP and seeing that the door to the wineceller wasn't "stuck", but rather latched with a simple piece of wood, easily moved. That happened within 20 minutes of that 911 call. AND LA allowing the Rs and their entourage free access through the home. I know she was alone- but she had a gun. She could have corralled them all in one room and said "Nobody move" till more LE arrived.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  8. #116

    Default "You can't ransom the body" spin

    One of the RST's claims is that BPD attorney Bob Keatley, Hofstrom, Mason and Bynum all let Eller know it was ILLEGAL to withhold JBR's body for burial and that it was violating the Ramseys' rights. They say that after Meyer had completed the autopsy, there was NO reason for him to retain custody of the body and that witholding it would have been illegal.
    L. Schiller sings from the same hymn sheet in PMPT.

    Whereas Steve Thomas in his book gives a different account of the issue.

    If LE feels it necessary to have additional testing done, can't they retain custody of the body until those questions are cleared up?
    All that "holding the body hostage" stuff sounds like mere RST spin, with Hofstrom acting as a Ramsey advocate right from the start.

  9. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee
    I agree with both of those statements. Timing is everything. Of all the flaws in the handling of this case, the most fatal happened in the first hours- Officer French not looking UP and seeing that the door to the wineceller wasn't "stuck", but rather latched with a simple piece of wood, easily moved. That happened within 20 minutes of that 911 call. AND LA allowing the Rs and their entourage free access through the home. I know she was alone- but she had a gun. She could have corralled them all in one room and said "Nobody move" till more LE arrived.
    But LE in Boulder were not trained in those kinds of situations. They WERE trained in community sensitivity, how NOT to offend anyone with your symbol of patriarchal violence and dominance, the GUN. They would have been encouraged to give sympathy and kind treatment to the VICTIM of the crime which in this case, was the Ramseys. They were more victim's advocates than true cops, except for Steve Thomas, who wasn't there on 12/26.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  10. #118

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    Suppose it was Burke who had caused the head injury and the Ramseys had confessed to having covered it up - what would they have been charged with ?

    Burke could not be held responsible since he was under age.
    A parent covering up a homicide for which the offender cannot be held responsible - would this be 'obstruction of justice'?

  11. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    Suppose it was Burke who had caused the head injury and the Ramseys had confessed to having covered it up - what would they have been charged with ?

    Burke could not be held responsible since he was under age.
    A parent covering up a homicide for which the offender cannot be held responsible - would this be 'obstruction of justice'?
    A crime was still committed resulting in death, therefore, obstruction of justice, or hindering with an investigation would be my guess...and they are similar, if not the same...aren't they?

    obstruction of justicen. The criminal offense, under common law and according to the statutes of many jurisdictions, of obstructing the administration and due process of law.
    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenét. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

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  12. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moab
    A crime was still committed resulting in death, therefore, obstruction of justice, or hindering with an investigation would be my guess...and they are similar, if not the same...aren't they?

    obstruction of justicen. The criminal offense, under common law and according to the statutes of many jurisdictions, of obstructing the administration and due process of law.
    I imagine every state would have differing statutes for this kind of thing. In Colorado, the way I understand it, if a child under 10 commits a crime, or is involved in a crime, even a serious one like murder, they cannot be charged, and neither can anyone else involved with the crime, even if they are over 10 because in so doing, the identity of the 10 year old would be known.
    Now, I am not an expert on Colorado law- so I may not be accurate in my understanding, but people here probably know.
    In New Jersey (or Sopranoland, as I like to call it) kids kill people all the time. Even little kids. Sometimes they are prosecuted as adults, especially if the crime is rape, but when they aren't, the crime is tried in Juvenile Court. They still do time, but in Juvenile detention centers. Depending on the circumstances, the record is usually expunged when time is served.
    If BR was the perp here, and his parents covered it up, I don't think they could be charged with anything the way I understand Colorado law.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.



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