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  1. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel XVI
    Dear Cherokee:

    "What you said is what many of us here at FFJ have been saying for years. Intruders don't stage crime scenes in other people's home. PERIOD."

    --Except when the killer has framing the residents of the home as a premeditated part of his or her motive.
    If the killer had wanted to frame the Ramseys, they'd have done a much better job of planting "evidence." They also wouldn't have had Patsy write the ransom note, and then have Patsy and John refuse to cooperate with LE and lie about what happened that night.

    No one had to frame the Ramseys. Their own actions, and words, belied their guilt.

  2. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texan
    I too thought from reading the ST book that the pages were simply counted and the pages missing were counted by the small tab of paper left where the page is perforated to be torn from the pad.
    Exactly. The pages weren't numbered, but they WERE counted by the perforations left at the top of the pad.

  3. #87

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    RST is short for Ramsey Spin Team. We all like to insult each other as often and quickly as possible.


    Well, I just think that a lot of people are joining the forum, and I know there's a lot of interest. I have had a few theories through the years that got me some harsh words. I think we all have changed our theories many times, or adapted them as we've learned. I still have several I can argue, one as well as the other.

    I just don't want to see people being too testy when we're all very tired and frustrated right now. It's been a long decade. I don't think it's improved my character, I'm sad to say, just the opposite.

    I also know that the Ramseys and Lou Smit are compelling and charismatic. I often think that many of us, if we met in real life and this case wasn't brought up, would like each other well enough.

    But try to understand, Daniel, that most of us have been at this a very long time and we didn't come by our knowledge of the case or our theories lightly or easily. There's a lot of hard work on this forum, and if you want to join us in the spirit of searching for the truth and justice for a murdered child, please consider that a fact up front. We have professionals from all walks of life. Nobody here is careless about a child murder.

    The difference between this forum and jameson's forum...which we call the swamp, by the way, and there's a very long history behind that, if you don't know...is that we are here for the true victim, JonBenet, while the swamp is all about defending the Ramseys.

    I, for one, will state unequivocally that the one thing I know for a fact and from which I will never sway, and which the Ramsey lawyer Lin Wood agrees with as he stated on Larry King that the Ramsey lawyers kept them from being put in prison, but got them convicted in the court of public opinion: the Ramseys failed as parents when they refused to help LE the first day after finding their child's body, hiring lawyers and never going to the Boulder Police Dept. TO THIS DAY to help find the killer of their child, not doing whatever it took to do so. The Ramseys became suspects because they hired defense lawyers who treated them like they are guilty...which ALL defense attorneys do, as that's the best way to protect their clients.

    But the Ramseys were JonBenet's parents, not their lawyers. It was up to the Ramseys to listen to legal advice and then choose to help LE in whatever way they could, to speak for JonBenet when she could no longer speak for herself. That they didn't was damning to their image and forever will be. That they make no apologies for it to this day is worse. Whining about how THEY were treated when JonBenet is the one who went through REAL HELL in their home that night...well, it's cowardly and selfish, and making excuses will never change my opinion of this.

    Another thing that is also irrefutable: that selfish and adversarial relationship the Ramseys engendered with the Boulder LE immediately has resulted in NO INTRUDER ever being tried in this case.

    If this Karr guy is charged now, it's not because of anything the Ramseys did. In fact, since Karr was brought to the attention of Boulder 5 years ago and apparently dismissed by the BPD, I'd say if the Ramseys had worked to clear themselves as the BPD needed back in 1997, Karr might have been more carefully looked at in 2001.

    Just my opinion...JMO.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  4. #88

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    Daniel,

    I'm not being aggressive here, but for the life of me, I cannot and will never understand the convoluted acrobatics that those who support the Ramseys go through, to convince themselves and others that they are innocent.

    I honestly don't get it. Here at FFJ, you have highly educated intelligent posters who have looked at this case for 10 long years. Every single lie of the Ramseys has been documented here, and there are numerous ones. Nobody has made up any of this stuff..it's all been recorded from media appearances, depositions and statements that the Rams have made over the years.

    Just explain to me why lying OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again is indicative of an innocent person?

  5. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Show Me
    [SIZE=4]

    Koldkase the voice of reason........hahahahahahahaha
    Daniel has not experienced the wrath of Koldkase!!!!!!!!
    I resemble that remark!!

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  6. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel XVI
    Dear Cherokee:

    No, I didn't mean that at all, though I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. I simply meant that I thought I had an insight I had not heard previosuly and that might get people--like yourselves--thinking some more, perhaps in different directions. That's all.

    Sorry again.
    Okay, thank you for that. It means a lot, and will help calm people down.

    Like KK said, we've had some real doozies come in here trying to stir things up. We've seen and heard every theory under the sun, and we've combed the evidence backwards and forwards for 10 years ... so we get a little defensive sometimes when it sounds like our intelligence, case knowledge and deductive reasoning skills are being questioned.

    Sometimes, it's difficult to tell a person's tone and intent from just reading the written word. That's why emoticons were invented.

    So, if you're here to discuss the case ... that's fine. It might be a good idea to start with ShowMe's question that she's asked you several times now. She's been very patient.

  7. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel XVI
    Dear Kold:

    First off, thank you for being the apparent voice of reason and civility here! It is appreciated.
    Oooooohhh, KK has a groupie!

    Are pirates allowed to have groupies? I can't find my Guttah manual. I think you have to take a card, collect $200, and go directly to jail before you get a groupie. Guttah rules.

  8. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee
    If the killer had wanted to frame the Ramseys, they'd have done a much better job of planting "evidence." They also wouldn't have had Patsy write the ransom note, and then have Patsy and John refuse to cooperate with LE and lie about what happened that night.

    No one had to frame the Ramseys. Their own actions, and words, belied their guilt.

    Oh, Daniel...have you met our resident handwriting analyst and graphologist, Cherokee?

    She has a couple of ransom note analysis threads at the top of the forum thread page that are illustrative of how much work some of the people here have done on this case through the years. She makes a compelling argument that Patsy wrote the note. Most of us agree, but we have used other sources for this conclusion as well. There are many.

    Of course, there is always the opposite opinion, as well as "inconclusive" opinions. So we know that. Just wanted to let you know she's a great example you can check out easily enough to see that the dedication to gathering, researching, and analyzing evidence here is remarkable.

    Have you ever seen ACandyRose's website? www.acandyrose.com is a great site where you can find a lot of case information, documents, etc., from all the years of this case. But please feel free to bring info here to support your arguments. That's what we do.

    In fact, I used to have very long fingers. They're half an inch now from all the typing through the years....

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  9. #93

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    I'm going to bed, I will patiently await Daniels answer to my question.

    KK has a groupie?

    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa..... KK gets all the good stuff.

    I'm telling.............

  10. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee
    Oooooohhh, KK has a groupie!

    Are pirates allowed to have groupies? I can't find my Guttah manual. I think you have to take a card, collect $200, and go directly to jail before you get a groupie. Guttah rules.

    Talk to my AGENT ZOTTO!


    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  11. #95

    Default

    Don't pay them any attention, Daniel.... They're just jealous....

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  12. #96
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    8,381

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    Daniel: Quote:
    Why would Mrs. Ramsey or an intruder writing the note then and there have started in the middle of the tablet? Why (and how) would she had somehow destroyed the initial false start but not the second one which was left at the scene? It doesn't sound likely at all. More likely is what I speculated before.

    Very easily, Daniel. I often leave a pad on my kitchen table, to note down things I need at the supermarket. as I'm going through my day, if I am in the kitchen, I could receive phone calls, and with a list of items already on the top sheet, I often open the pad in the middle and start taking notes, or if I want to remember something else, I will also break the pad open anywhere it opens. This way, I am not disturbing the top sheet with my list on it. This, I do a lot, so Patsy Ramsey may well have done exactly what I did, maybe wanting to see if this was a better statement than she had written on the top sheet, and then she made sure she tore it out. Simple! Plus wouldn't you be a bit harrassed if it was you in Patsy Ramsey's situation? I think so! Staging can't be 100% perfect, I'm thinking!

    I'm still waiting for my reply. My post was on page two (?). :-( Boo hoo!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.



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