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  1. #37

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    I think the two different strings look very similar. The picture of the American Doll string shows it new and pristine. The one around JBR's neck would have had some wear to it, and not been as round ... especially if it came from a doll she had played with for awhile. You can see the same weaving pattern in both of them.

    I also think the duct tape could have come from Patsy previously taping the string down to the doll's back so it would not interfere with JBR's playing with it. It would makes sense why the Ramseys would want a duplicate doll delivered to Access Graphics. The original American Doll was missing her string and duct tape.
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  2. #38
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    Default Cherokee,

    I agree with your comment of the strings looking similiar. Esp in those 2 photos.
    There is a decided difference in the one shot of the garrot and string because it does look very shiny. But here the ropes or strings look very similiar.

    And since CAP was given a list of specific things to remove from the house I'm sure that that doll was at the top of the list for removal.

    Oh my, how that one act of deception looms over this whole case...CAP removing all that stuff from the murder scene. If only.............
    "When are we going to get our heads out of the sand and understand that sometimes really nice people who look good on the outside are dastardly on the inside." Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, MA

  3. #39
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    Default Tricia

    I like your theory. That is a good scenero! Great thinking ...girl!

  4. #40
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora
    I like your theory. That is a good scenero! Great thinking ...girl!
    Thanks Aurora but I can take ZERO credit for this theory. It's all jahazafat/pinker. This is what she has been trying to tell us for years. It was only recently that she was able to admit she worked at the doll company and that's how she knew about the order and the duct tape.
    tgrif@xmission.com
    FFJ C/O Tricia Griffith
    6300 N Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H #214
    Park City UT
    84098




    I am unaware of anyone who's profited from exploiting the Ramsey murder over a longer period of time, with a greater disregard for the principles of accuracy and fairness, than the production team of Mills and Tracey.They truly do inhabit a different moral universe from real journalists. It's the difference between journalism and propaganda.
    Alan Prendergast,reporter for Westword

  5. #41

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    I can't imagine that the rope inside the doll was as long as the rope used for the garrotte, and I do remember several sources saying the rope was flat, not round.

    This is what the autopsy report says:
    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jonbenet3.html

    Page 3 - "Extending rom the knot on the posterior aspect of the neck are two tails of the knot, one measuring 4 inches in length and having a frayed end, and the other measuring 17 inches in length with the end tied in multiple oops around a length of a round tan-brown wooden stick.."
    "The pedigree of honey
    Does not concern the bee,
    A clover, at any time, to him,
    is aristocracy."
    Emily Dickinson.

  6. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by VP
    I can't imagine that the rope inside the doll was as long as the rope used for the garrotte, and I do remember several sources saying the rope was flat, not round.

    This is what the autopsy report says:
    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jonbenet3.html

    Page 3 - "Extending rom the knot on the posterior aspect of the neck are two tails of the knot, one measuring 4 inches in length and having a frayed end, and the other measuring 17 inches in length with the end tied in multiple oops around a length of a round tan-brown wooden stick.."
    I've been lurking on this forum since finding it in a google search after the 48 Hours "Ramsey Infomercial". Reading this thread yesterday was what made me decide to register so I could add some information.
    I was always curious about why the American Girls doll were removed from the house. I think this thread is on to something.
    Between my 2 daughters and I, we have a total of 6 American Girls dolls.

    My first thought on reading this thread was that the duct tape theory fit, but no way would the string be long enough. So, yesterday, I looked at our dolls and I planned to come back here to ask just how long the crime scene string was. (So, thank you for posting it before I asked.)
    Here's what I found:
    • None of our dolls have strings that look like the doll picture posted on this site. The original strings on our dolls are not as thick and are much softer/more flexible looking.
    • 3 of our dolls have a flat string that looks more like the murder photo string. All the strings appear to be cotton. Some have a more "loosely woven" look. I almost dropped the doll I was holding when I pullled her clothes away and saw what it looked like.
    • The tails of the strings that hang below the knots that hold the head on the doll are much longer than the doll picture posted here. The tails go almost to the doll's butt.
    • The tails of string on the dolls belonging to my oldest daughter are not even in length. I know some of the tails on our dolls were trimmed to make them more even. Here are the lenghts of the tails:
      * 8 inches and 4 inches
      * 8 inches and 5 inches
      * 5.5 inches and 4.75 inches (this is one my daughter trimmed)
      * 7.5 inches and 5 inches
      * both 6.25 inches (trimmed by me)
      * both 7 inches (trimmed by me)
    • I couldn't measure the string inside the neck, but the outside of the neck is about 6.25 to 6.5 inches.
    • The string that most closely matched the crime photo string was on my Molly doll - a string I know I cut; the uncut tails are each 7 inches. That means that if I untied the knots and removed the string from the doll, the remaining string in my Molly doll is around 20 inches long (plus several knots at the neck).
    • The outfit Molly comes includes a dark blue wool skirt and a red and blue argyle sweater (I think acrylic).


    The string might not be long enough, but I think we have a close match and a reason for removing the dolls from the house.
    Last edited by sue; January 9, 2005, 11:24 am at Sun Jan 9 11:24:42 UTC 2005.

  7. #43

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    I have always found Jahazafat's story very intriguing.

    It's the fact that the doll was ordered on Jan 1, and the original dolls were collected (WHY?) and the fibers that interest me as well.

    I have always found the statement "no empty roll of duct tape or cord found in the house" therefore it HAS to be an intruder very lame. It would not be unusual to have cord around without a package. Just think how cord comes packaged when purchased new-- it may have a paper sleeve -- that's it. It comes in various lengths. It's possible this cord was used for something else a long time ago and 2 or 3 feet which was used for the garote of an original 6 foot bundle was lying around the basement or garage with other miscellaneous stuff. This would NOT be unusual. I bet some of us have cord lying around without a package.

    The duct tape is interesting as well. If the same duct tape that was used on JonBenet was previously on the doll, it should have had some of the doll or unidentified fibers on it. I don't know if there were unidentified fibers on the actual duct tape. But we do know that JonBenet had unidentified fibers on her body which oddly match the colors of the clothing of the doll.

    I did not realize Jahazafat's father is an attorney. I think they should provide all of this information to Tom Bennett-- he is now the lead investigator. Her Dad would be the best person to contact him, since his opinion of tipsters is poor due to a few mentally unbalanced individuals.

    Something which reaches out and screams to me "NOT RIGHT" is the doll order. It can also be looked at that the "intruder" may have purchased the doll and sent it as a calling card. I cannot imagine that the Ramseys' would not have told the police if an unknown doll, identical to one JonBenet owned appeared at John's office and they did not know who ordered it, especially since it could have been from "the killer"....

  8. #44

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    I agree Sabrina. What Jahazafat has brought to the table here is a very credible theory about the tape. Add to that a possible explination for some of the fibers. We know there were dolls in the home that may be the source of both. We know this from the Ramsey's and their own family's words.

    Little

  9. #45
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    Default Wow

    This is a fascinating thread.

    Per Sue "# the remaining string in my Molly doll is around 20 inches long (plus several knots at the neck)."

    Makes sense to me now. Why else would someone order another doll after JonBenet was gone? A calling card? Nah, the doll wouldn't say enough.

    Bet someone was covering just in case they were told to turn the doll over..like they were asked to do with their clothing months and months later.

  10. #46

    Default

    More about fibers.
    Just as the string on the dolls we have is not all exactly the same, their bodies are not exactly all the same cloth either. Their bodies can all be described as tan woven cloth, but the exact color varies (and I'm not just talking about the African American doll that we have). Some of the Caucasian dolls have darker toned cloth and some is lighter. So, if you turned over a new Molly doll, for example, to the police, the fibers would not necessarily match the fibers on the tape, even if the tape had been used on a Molly doll.

    And more about the dolls. The American Girl dolls are sort of upper middle class/upper class keepsake playthings. At that time, the doll itself was $74 and accessory kits included things like an outfit for $22 up to a bed for $60. It's not a subscription thing (which someone mentioned earlier as a possible reason for a doll to arrive after JonBenet's death. You have to order the dolls. Now there are 2 stores that sell them, but at that time, the only way to get them was by phone or mail order. Each doll is set in a particular time period and has stories about her. The accessory kits are historically correct plythings that enter into the story (so most girls want at least some of the accessories).

    I don't know this, was it established which doll(s) JonBenet actually had and what clothing she had for the dolls? Patsy doesn't really impress me as the "just order one doll kind". From what I have read about her, she seems like more the type to order quite a bit of the doll's collection.
    The Molly doll comes with a blue wool skirt, but her accessory kit (which I expect JonBenet would have had since the doll in the catalog has it on) include a blue wool beret also. One of her accessories is a dark green velvet dress (almost black).
    The Kirsten doll, has an accessory/dress kit that includes a black and white wool hand knit sweater, a white cotton shirt and a black wool skirt. Kirsten's nightgown is a white cotton (slightly fuzzy) flannel and you can order a Saint Lucia outfit for Christmas that includes a white cotton dress. One of the items that can be ordered for Kirsten is a pair of grey stuffed cats. I don't know what the cats are made of now, but the ones we have are grey real fur.
    The Samanta doll comes in thick black, slightly fuzzy tights. One of her additional outfits is a dark grey wool school dress and you can also order a navy blue and green (so dark it's almost black) cape and gaiters. Samanta also has several outfits of white cotton cloth.

    So anyway, more potential fiber sources.

  11. #47
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    Default Sue

    I first became aware of this doll when my daughter was just past the age of wanting one. I thought they were so cute and unique.

    With the catalog I received, you could order clothes for your daughter that matched the doll's. I wondered why Patsy didn't order some of them as they were very pretty and for JonBenet, it could have been fun to be dressed like her doll.

    Maybe JonBenet wasn't into dolls. I remember hearing that Patsy had ordered her "my twin doll" and JonBenet didn't like it. In seeing her bedroom I was surprised that there weren't a bunch of stuff animals or dolls in it.

    Maybe she was just too busy being pretty for mom. I really wonder just what this little girl did like to play with...

  12. #48
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    Default Sue

    Thanks for the very informative posts. Since the length of the strings on the dolls was not uniform, it is altogether possible that there was one in the Ramsey home long enough for the garotte. It is also very likely that there was one or more pristine, unplayed with dolls, where the string length would not have been altered.

    Your remarks on the fibers are also very interesting.

    I certainly hope CBI or FBI takes another hard look at this case. In light of the information on this thread, a whole new area of investigation should be opened up.

    Forget about DA Mary Keenan. She was a member of the Hunter-Wise team. She will never exert herself to solve the JonBenet murder. These goof-offs, who kept and served alcohol on the premises of the Justice Center, could not be trusted to conduct a decent, honest investigation.

    Sorry to say, Tom Bennett is just another puppet.

    I wonder what Governor Owens did with that petition from hundreds of justice-seekers who asked him to turn the case over to the Attorney General?



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