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  1. #25

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    I seem to remember John Ramsey saying in the FNC The Ramseys: On the Record interview (April 15, 2000) that he wants the murder of children under the age of 13 to be made a federal offense. Wonder if this would have covered Burke who was technically over the age of 13 (13 years 2 months) at the time of this interview.

    -Tea

  2. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by icedtea4me
    Thanks, rashomon. There have been so many things said regarding this case and this statement this poster claimed was made by Nedra needs to be substantiated.
    -Tea
    This was a poster on A&E's Jeffrey MacDonald board who mentioned this. We got into an off-topic discussion about the JB case because it has parallels to the MacDonald case. I asked her yesterday on the JonBenet thread if she could give me the source of Nedra's stament, but she hasn't been online since. We can't send private messages on A&E, but I hope she will answer soon.

    Edited to add: since this poster mentioned the book 'Perfect Murder Perfect Town' too, I went through the index and have just found something on page 513 (1999 paperback ed. bold type mine).
    It was during the Geraldo Rivera show, but it seems Patsy did not tell this to Nedra but to Jennifer Kay, producer for Rivera's show.
    Nedra is mentioned a few sentences before, so maybe the poster by mistake attributed this to her. Nedra had given an impromptu interview from her home for the show.

    After the segment with Nedra, Rivera chatted briefly with producer Kay, who shared her observations of Patsy, with whom she'd spoken the previous week in Atlanta without a camera crew.
    "She told me, you know, she wishes that the police would not focus on her anymore but find who the real killer is, Kay said. And she also told me she didn't care what the public felt about her being guilty or innocent. She knew in her heart she didn't do it."


    If we assume that Jennifer Kay was accurate in her recollection, Patsy told her that she knew in her heart she didn't do it.
    I think this is a very stange statment to make, as if Patsy wanted to convince herself that this was so.
    I also find it odd that Patsy said she didn't care about the public's opinion feels. If I were innocent, I'd care very much if the public thought I was guilty (or innocent).

    [To Bill Salisbury from Webbsleuths: I replied to your comments on the 'Misinformation Part 2' thread.]
    Last edited by rashomon; May 28, 2006, 12:43 pm at Sun May 28 12:43:51 UTC 2006.

  3. #27
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    I've heard a lot of people use that "i know in my heart" thingy. Like I said, Kevin Hailey used it. I personally don't buy into it. It's a copout, imho.
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  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    Edited to add: since this poster mentioned the book 'Perfect Murder Perfect Town' too, I went through the index and have just found something on page 513 (1999 paperback ed. bold type mine).
    It was during the Geraldo Rivera show, but it seems Patsy did not tell this to Nedra but to Jennifer Kay, producer for Rivera's show.
    Nedra is mentioned a few sentences before, so maybe the poster by mistake attributed this to her. Nedra had given an impromptu interview from her home for the show.

    After the segment with Nedra, Rivera chatted briefly with producer Kay, who shared her observations of Patsy, with whom she'd spoken the previous week in Atlanta without a camera crew.
    "She told me, you know, she wishes that the police would not focus on her anymore but find who the real killer is, Kay said. And she also told me she didn't care what the public felt about her being guilty or innocent. She knew in her heart she didn't do it."

    If we assume that Jennifer Kay was accurate in her recollection, Patsy told her that she knew in her heart she didn't do it.
    I think this is a very stange statment to make, as if Patsy wanted to convince herself that this was so.
    I also find it odd that Patsy said she didn't care about the public's opinion feels. If I were innocent, I'd care very much if the public thought I was guilty (or innocent).
    Thank you for locating that, rashomon. Hopefully Jennifer Kay did remember Patsy's words exactly. This Geraldo show aired on Sept 25, 1997, about a month or so before the one which had an interview with Patsy outside her Atlanta home. This interview was discussed in Hodges' book. Patsy said something about JonBenet being able to hold a pose for a long time. If I were the interviewer, I would have asked, "You say that JonBenet was able to hold a pose for a long time. Was this something she worked at, or was her ability to hold a pose a family trait?"

    -Tea

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by icedtea4me
    I seem to remember John Ramsey saying in the FNC The Ramseys: On the Record interview (April 15, 2000) that he wants the murder of children under the age of 13 to be made a federal offense. Wonder if this would have covered Burke who was technically over the age of 13 (13 years 2 months) at the time of this interview.

    -Tea
    Bold emphasis mine.

    Little

    COMMITTMENTS TO THE FOUNDATION: Included the $100,000 reward, plans to offer a grant program, plans for an outreach program called SHOES that would advocate legislation, SHOES would offer resources and rewards, SHOES would use tools to track pedophiles, SHOES would put reward funds in place, SHOES would advocate child murders to a federal offense. John Ramsey said in an online ABC Chat "In Their Own Words" on March 20, 2000 that he wants the Foundation to protect children against predators, through legislation and that he wants child murders to be a federal offense. Where are the grant programs? Where is the SHOES organization?
    http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenet-foundations.htm

  6. #30

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    Sometimes it's what isn't said that sticks out. For instance, as I had pointed out in the DOI: The Murderer thread, John avoids any mention of the application of the duct tape and the wrapping of the body in the blanket in his scenario of what happened that night.

    -Tea

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberry
    The inside of the home was checked but I don't remember reading of even a cursory look outside by the R's (even to look out the windows) in the minutes prior to the police arriving. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.
    you are correct, Cranberry!! strange... even Danielle VanDam's mom went around the neighborhoold looking for her... her dad drove around...

    that WOULD be the next steps as for searching... :shrug shoulders: ya got me!!
    ~~"Veni, Vidi, Velcro!
    I came, I saw, I stuck around!~~

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    A poster on another forum brought this up:

    Her mother [Nedra] said: Patsy told me "I know in my heart I did not do this."
    Now that's a very odd statement to make. For this is actually something one would say to another person, e. g. "I know in my heart you didn't do this",
    But Patsy said this of herself, as if she wanted to reassure herself.

    Even if Patsy had only said "I know I didn't do this", it would have been odd enough, because it adds an element of uncertainty.
    "I know in my heart I didn't do this" is even more strange.
    For if a person didn't do it, wouldn't she simply state: "I didn't do it."?

    Why did Patsy feel the need to phrase it like that? Possible interpretation:

    "My heart tells me that this could not (really) have been me who did this to my beloved daughter" - maybe these are the thoughts which keep running through Patsy's head. So there could be a defense mechanism at work here: she blocks out that part of her personality who in fact did this to JonBenet.
    WOW, Rashomon! Interesting thought!

    Just lurking over here! love ALL the discussion on this thread! you guys rock!
    ~~"Veni, Vidi, Velcro!
    I came, I saw, I stuck around!~~

  9. #33

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    (WHY NUT): In my opinion, one of the finest flirtings with confession came with this exchange on the Christian Broadcasting Network in 2000:

    SCOTT: The bottom line, below the bottom line, people will ask me, "O.K., you've come out of this, confidentially, what do you think? There is also a side not only as a journalist, but being an ordained minister in the church, to say to other pastors, if they ask me, "Would you recommend to let these people come to my church?"

    JOHN: Let me ask you this? What if we were murderers? Would we be denied access to a church? I hope not.

    PATSY: That's the people who need to be there. Aren't we "preaching to the choir" as they say.

    SCOTT: Well, they still say that.

    JOHN: That is a problem we Christians have in our churches.

    PATSY: We need to welcome everyone.


    I mean, really. Come on. There is not a single innocent parent on earth who has ever experienced the death of their child and then had the gumption to say, "What if I did murder my child?" That is a statement which is always meant to probe the interviewer, to push at their boundaries and soften them up to the concept that yes, the person in front of them may, in fact, have killed their own child. Innocent, upstanding, moral people, people who are repulsed by the committing of murder, DO NOT spend a moment of time idly wondering what it would like to be killers of their own children.
    John's question is indeed almost a confession. Wow!

  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by icedtea4me
    Sometimes it's what isn't said that sticks out. For instance, as I had pointed out in the DOI: The Murderer thread, John avoids any mention of the application of the duct tape and the wrapping of the body in the blanket in his scenario of what happened that night.

    -Tea
    I hope the police notice this, Tea. You're very observant.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  11. #35

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    Originally Posted by icedtea4me
    Sometimes it's what isn't said that sticks out. For instance, as I had pointed out in the DOI: The Murderer thread, John avoids any mention of the application of the duct tape and the wrapping of the body in the blanket in his scenario of what happened that night.
    -Tea
    I just read in PMPT that John told one of the victim advocates he thought he killer had not intended to kill JonBenet and that's why he wrapped her body in the blanket (PMPT; paperb, p. 80):

    After JonBenet's body was found, victim advocate Grace Morlock told detectives John Ramsey said more that once that he didn't think he kidnapper meant to kill his daughter, because she was wrapped in her blanket.

    But in the hypothetical case of a kidnapping 'gone wrong' - which kidnapper would even bother to wrap the victim's body in her blanket, especially in a house full of people where he could be detected at any moment? No kidnapper would do that. In a kidnapping gone wrong, the perp would only have had one thought in mind: "I've got to get out of here as fast as I can!" He would not have taken the time to wrap JB's body in her blanket. Totally absurd.

    And it seems that John when later putting his story together for DOI, finally realized this too, which is why he made no mention of the blanket anymore.
    And he also realized that putting a duct tape on his dead child's mouth had been a big blunder too, and therefore did not mention it either in DOI.

    But I think John indeed spoke the thruth to the victim advocate after JohnBenet's body was found, only one should substitute 'parent' for 'kidnapper': the parent did not mean to kill JonBenet, which is why she was wrapped in her blanket.
    This would be a classic case of 'undoing' the crime in the parent's mind.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon

    [snip]

    I believe that without being aware of it, JR spoke of what had indeed happened: the head injury had come first. Both Ramseys believed JB was already dead, and Patsy (helped by John who wanted to cover up for her) tied the knot around her neck and staged the rest of the scene to make it look like a sexual pervert had committed the crime.

    And what you [Easy Writer] wrote in your letter to Mary Keenan is a fascinating interpretation of JR's statement:

    Translation: "Please tell me that she was dead from the head injury before the strangulation. I don't want to believe there was a chance she could have survived and wasn't given the chance."

    I have often wondered if the head injury could have resulted in rendering JonBenet so close to death her parent/s didn't realize she was still alive, so "staged" the strangulation, only to find out later they in fact DID strangle her.

    But if that happened, I don't think they regretted it, as I believe they did the entire strangling/staging to cover up prior molestation. Schiller speaks to that evidence of prior molestation in PMPT, and it's clear most experts believe she was molested prior to that night.

    And thanks, Jayelles, for bringing that article here, as this quote mentions John reading to JonBenet, which is what Thomas said John and Patsy managed to communicate to THREE DIFFERENT OFFICERS AT THREE DIFFERENT TIMES that morning, but which they later DENIED, saying they were misunderstood. I think it's possible when they/their lawyers saw that the autopsy had detected prior molestation with CHRONIC INFLAMMATION in the vaginal vault and the prior damage to the hymen, realizing that the paintbrush hadn't covered for it entirely, their story then changed.

    John Ramsey enjoyed reading to his daughter, Paugh said.

    "He would look over her papers, too," she said. "She always had art papers for him. She wanted to be an artist sometimes, and then the next day she wanted to be a professional ice skater."
    I gotta' tell ya', that suitcase which is featured prominantly at the murder scene of a child--in the BASEMENT, with a bed cover inside which is arguably the source of some fibers found on JonBenet's body/genitals, and which has a child's book inside...it gives me pause and always will.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.



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